If any of you got up early for WKJ, sorry to disappoint. It was my daughter's first day of school, so things were a bit hectic. But, if you're like Ray, you're still reading Tuesday's Pioneer Press.
Category: The Catechism
These three things are the chief attributes of the Catholic Church.
St. Alex says, please place your answer in the form of a question in the combox, and say a few Hail Marys while you wait for the answer to be revealed.
Demerits for using Google and other sneaky searches. Educated guesses are welcome and encouraged. Good luck!!
No winner last week!! Guess away!!!
18 comments:
What is :
I thought it was 4
1. One
2. Holy
3. Catholic (as in universal, not religious affiliation)
4. Apostolic
or are some of these lumped together?
Those, as you know, are the "marks" of the Church. I had never heard of the attributes, at least I don't think I have...anyway, there are three attributes. It's in the Baltimore Catechism, but no fair looking or else the wrath of St. Alex will be upon you...(dun, dun dun!!!)
AA: I thinking the same as you. And now I have to look it up, thus postponing chance of an award to the distant future.
I hadn't heard of them either. Just looked it up. That was a good question.
Well I had a dream yesterday that the Weekend Kneerler was up early, but I spaced on it and here it is Saturday afternoon and I'm finally getting around to play. I haven't read the answers they gave but I note with apprehension that there is a plethora of contestants who have entered already.
Hopefully, they will make procedural errors and I can still win.
Here goes: What is "one, holy and apostolic?" "Catholic" being a redundancy, I guess, in this regard.
Crossing my fingers.
Well, I guess I will have to ponder some more. St. Alex is really scouring the bottom of the Catechism barrel for his questions.
I couldn't ponder without cheating, but I was extremely surprised at the difficulty of the questions I encountered when I Googled.
It seems that the "Baltimore Catechism" was never put into copyright, so many publishers came out with "Baltimore Catechisms, some easy, and some hard.
I won a city-wide catechism contest when I was in fifth grade or so in Duluth. Pure luck, easy questions came to me. But the questions in this BC seem much more difficult than I remember that we had to memorize.
This is from Catholicity.com
http://www.catholicity.com/baltimore-catechism/lesson12.html
Lesson 12 from the Baltimore Cathechism
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152. Which is the one true Church established by Christ?
The one true Church established by Christ is the Catholic Church.
And other sheep I have that are not of this fold. Them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd. (John 10:16)
153. How do we know that the Catholic Church is the one true Church established by Christ?
We know that the Catholic Church is the one true Church established by Christ because it alone has the marks of the true Church.
Holy Father, keep in thy name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we also are. (John 17:11)
154. What do we mean by the marks of the Church?
By the marks of the Church we mean certain clear signs by which all men can recognize it as the true Church founded by Jesus Christ.
155. What are the chief marks of the Church?
The chief marks of the Church are four: It is one, holy, catholic or universal, and apostolic.
156. Why is the Catholic Church one?
The Catholic Church is one because all its members, according to the will of Christ, profess the same faith, have the same sacrifice and sacraments, and are united under one and the same visible head, the Pope.
Because the bread is one, we though many, are one body, all of us who partake of the one bread. (I Corinthians 10:17)
157. Why is the Catholic Church holy?
The Catholic Church is holy because it was founded by Jesus Christ, who is all-holy, and because it teaches, according to the will of Christ, holy doctrines, and provides the means of leading a holy life, thereby giving holy members to every age.
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore, by their fruits you will know them. (Matthew 7:17-20)
158. Why is the Catholic Church catholic or universal?
The Catholic Church is catholic or universal because, destined to last for all time, it never fails to fulfill the divine commandment to teach all nations all the truths revealed by God.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world, for a witness to all nations. (Matthew 24:14)
159. Why is the Catholic Church apostolic?
The Catholic Church is apostolic because it was founded by Christ on the apostles and, according to His divine will, has always been governed by their lawful successors.
And I say to thee, thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (Matthew 16:18)
160. How do we know that no other church but the Catholic Church is the true Church of Christ?
We know that no other church but the Catholic Church is the true Church of Christ because no other church has these four marks.
161. What are the chief attributes of the Catholic Church?
The chief attributes of the Catholic Church are authority, infallibility, and indefectibility. They are called attributes because they are qualities perfecting the nature of the Church.
I think this question points out a problem with using the Baltimore Catechism as an authoritative resource (Wikipedia has an interesting article on the catechism here.). Apparently it went through several versions (primarily due to lack of a copyright). My research could not find a basis in the Teachings of the Universal Church (ie, Church Fathers, Church Councils, Papal Encyclicals, etc.) for the attributes. As Ray's excerpts show, the 3 attributes asked for in the questions are derivative of the 4 marks (which are authoritative in themselves of the Universal Church as they're contained in the Nicene Creed (which are to be recited at every Sunday Mass). The Baltimore Catechism, with which many of us (who are over 50) were educated. at best could be considered an authority as the basis of Catholic formation within the United States. However, some aspects of its contents have been superceded by teachings of Vatican II, Papal teachings, the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the new UCCB Catechism (which IS based on the CCC (which in itself IS an universal authoritative work of the Church, something lacking in the Baltimore). The Baltimore is good starting point in education, a long as one remembers its limitations, including its dated language,its parochial (as in Irish Catholic) perspectives. and its intended audience namely Catholics of limited education. Just as we wouldn't educate adults strictly by use of stained glass windows (as was done in the Middle Ages), we need to educate Catholic Adults with a more intellectual formation today.
Beautiful comments, 3A's
I'm ashamed to admit that I really haven't had much formal theology or catechesis since high school. (Although I'm a big fan of Father Corapi's Sunday night course on the Catechism on EWTN).
I bought the CCC 10 or more years ago, but just skimmed through it. Now and then I look up particular items, but that's it. I should go over to UST and audit some of their courses.
Did you look at that Catholicity version of the BC? It does seem to be an adult version of what we used in grade school. Or maybe I've forgotten how difficult BC #3 was. I think there was a #4, too, but we never used that. I want to say the publisher was Benziger Brothers.
I just noticed that the BC that Catholicity.com has on its web page is the 1941 Edition from the Confraternity on Christian Doctrine.
And it has a lot of biblical references. I know that my BC's in grade school had no biblical references.
You dare to question the great and might Oz, I mean BC???
You guys are way over my head. At least I can say I'm under 50 and never used the BC...I was barely catechised at all with anything. I was under the impression that the BC was more authoritative than I guess it is. Hmmm. Interesting. Just another thing this homeschool mom needs to be aware of. I don't think you can throw the baby out with the bathwater, but it is good to know.
I'm NOT advocating throwing out the BC with the bathwater. I'm just sayign to be aware its limitations and its biases. Its like saying Christ was upset with the Pharisees because the followed the Law. Instead He was upset because they thought the Law was ALL there was. Christ builds on the Law so that not only His followers are made the implementers of God's Will but that all Creation becomes an effector of the Will.
AA: I didn't think you were advocating throwing out the BC, but know of some other things that would be good candidates!
Maybe I should just stick to easier things, like who is the current Pope...but even that is in dispute with some :)
You mean I'm NOT the Pope? My fanbase will be SOOOOOOOOO disappointed! LOL
Great & Mighty (henceforth G&M):
Any questions or discussion that results in my learning something, even if it is not that which was intended, is well worth my time. Thank you. Keep 'em coming!
[third attempt to make blogger work]
I have no idea. Honestly, after reading this thread, I'm still not sure! LOL! Hi, Ray!
Cath:
The answer is, as Ray said,
"The chief attributes of the Catholic Church are authority, infallibility, and indefectibility. They are called attributes because they are qualities perfecting the nature of the Church."
I was rather disappointed to discover that Cathy does not read every word I post carefully.
I thought that I had made it clear to her that all of my pithy comments are inspired and thus are to be treasured for their content and their style.
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